How’s Israel been treating you?
It’s been good! It all happened really quick but I’m definitely settled in here now.
I was trying to do a little research but I was curious about how quick the move transpired.
Yeah, so from when I first heard there might be a chance of it until being on the plane, it was less than a week.
Oh wow! From what I read, it seemed Sacramento was really supportive of the move. I guess they helped usher that along?
Sacramento didn’t want me to go in the middle of the season but they understood, once I talked to them and explained where my head was at and that I saw this as a big move upward for myself and my career. They were cooperative in making that happen. The driving factor, timeline-wise, was actually on this end, from Maccabi Haifa, because they had Europa League qualification matches and really wanted to get me rostered before a match that was basically a week and a half out. So that was the big accelerator on the timeline.
I talked to Joe Lennarz [with Ascension Athletes] a little bit and he said you had gotten called in for an MLS preseason but for whatever reason it didn’t click. Was there any sort of “**** you MLS” mentality driving you overseas?
For me, it was more of the opportunity and it was the right opportunity. In terms of MLS, I definitely felt like I had been overlooked at times. I had gotten invited in [2014] at the last minute. Philadelphia had invited four goalkeepers into their camp but their fourth goalkeeper backed out and went to another team. But it definitely was them just bringing me in to be an extra body as a fourth goalkeeper. They had already had three goalkeepers signed or in negotiations and I don’t think I was MLS-quality or ready for the level at the time. I had only played D2 in college, never played semi-pro or PDL or anything and really was pretty unaware of what the soccer world was like beyond college.
Was there anything specific that you were told like, “Hey this is why you’re not going to make it at the next level?”
Yeah, I was never the biggest kid growing up. I never played state ODP, let alone regional or national. A part of that was because basically there was me at 5’3” and two kids, same birth year, at 5’10”, 5’11”. And similar things for college, I definitely had a D1 coach tell me, “Look, we think you’re talented but we like our goalkeepers to be above 6’0”. We don’t know if you’ll grow a little bit but we don’t know if you’ll be there.”
I wasn’t recruited at all going into college. I ended up choosing my school because of academic reasons. I ended up getting into [UC San Diego] and did a winter tryout and had gotten invited into preseason with the university team. But I wasn’t actively recruited or had much contact with the coaches before I applied to the school.
That is wild to hear that, knowing you went on to be a D2 All-American. Did you surprise yourself with your talent at any level or were you always confident of what you could do? How did you go about matching your confidence with your talent level?
The first time I realized I could play beyond college was after my junior season. I had a really strong junior season. We ended up just missing out on the tournament that year but individually I had a very good year. We had a great defensive team. And I thought, “Okay, I did pretty well. If I have a really strong senior season, maybe there might be something there afterwards.” But it was never something that I thought could realistically happen or really make a career out of it.
When I was younger, an elementary school teacher asked, “What do you want to do when you grow up?” I said, “Pro soccer player,” of course. That’s the dream. But from after the age of 12, maybe 13 onwards, I’ve always been a realist and I never thought it’d be a real possibility. I really liked what I was studying academically. I like tinkering with things, building things. So I was very confident that when I started working, I would work as an engineer in one capacity or another.
What was the reasoning behind, I’m trying to word this correctly to make it sound like I’m not insulting you *laughs*
No, say it anyways. *laughs*
It’s just fascinating to me that you went from not really focusing on being a pro to ending up where you are now. What was the reason behind thinking “I might not be a pro”? Was it looking at the talent level and thinking, “I don’t know if I’m there yet” or was it the lack of the exposure?
It was just something I never really thought of myself as a player who could go on to that level. I’m not sure if you knew this, but growing up I played for Santa Clara Sporting in the Bay Area. On my club team was current national team player, Sebastian Lletget. He was kind of the golden standard of the player who’s going to be successful and who’s going to go on and have a pro career. And there were other players on my team who were in the regional ODP or national ODP player pool. I bought into the feedback that said I would get the visibility that other players were getting but I didn’t get any and I never saw or got any of that. So I think a little bit of that reflected backwards into my own perception of my own potential future.
So fast forward here, when the move to Maccabi Haifa came up, what was the big motivational factor of making that happen? Or was it just “this is the next step for me”.
It was an extremely intimidating move, but the biggest factor was I had been overlooked at the MLS level. I had a really solid year with Phoenix [in 2017] and really didn’t get any looks or any serious looks from MLS teams after that. With Sacramento, I know they saw a future in me, but the timeline of them moving up to MLS was a couple years out. So I looked at the opportunity and saw it as a new challenge. If I came here [to Maccabi Haifa] and I was able to find success, it would put me on a whole new level than as a USL goalkeeper. It would give me a lot of exposure and potential for European play. I didn’t really know too much about the culture here. I had seen a little bit. I had heard a little bit. I knew that they were much more European-like in terms of the club, the fan culture, the competition. I didn’t realize this at the time, but looking back, I had gotten a little bit complacent in USL.
Do you think that came from the lack of exposure or the lack of connection from MLS?
No, I think it was that I didn’t have to be as focused or as good to be successful, or good enough. It was a slow creep where, if I wasn’t performing 100% at training, it didn’t matter because I could get away with performing at 90 or 95 percent.
I assume, pretty early on after the move with Maccabi Haifa, you realized “Oh there’s a little more pressure on me now”? Or was that a slow realization?
There were a couple different things. So when I first came here, I went on a run. This was one of my first days here, before I finished signing my paperwork because I wasn’t allowed to train yet. I was just going on a run around town. A car kind of pulls over on the road right next to me and someone leans out the window and says, “Are you Josh Cohen, the goalkeeper?” *laughs* And that was kind of the moment I realized, “Okay, it’s different here.”
What did he say? I guess he congratulated you or was it negative?
Yeah, yeah, he said “Welcome.” I think that might have been my second day here? And that was kind of the first indication. And when I started training with the team, there were little things. If I was slightly out of position or a fraction of a second slow, the players would catch me on it and they would punish me for those little mistakes and I hadn’t really been punished prior.
My goalkeeper coach here, he’s a character and very knowledgeable, but extremely demanding and has a very, very low tolerance for mistakes. If you make one mistake he’s going to be yelling and everyone knows you made a mistake.
Was there something that you felt like came up more than once or was it a lot of little things, as far as mistakes went?
A lot of little things, all rooted in the same issue. I think part of it was because of the move and new environment. I was playing very tense. I was locked up, very aggressive, when, in a lot of times, it’s best to be casual, loose, free-flowing until the exact moment when you need to be set and reactive.
Yeah, it’s funny, working with youth goalkeepers here in Memphis, trying to figure out which ones are overthinking and which ones aren’t thinking enough, because it’s a very specific problem. The ones overthinking get too distracted and they’re behind the play, but the ones under-thinking are still behind the play, but it’s for an entirely different reason. I guess the new environment and the move had you a little more tense?
Yeah, I think it was partly that and also partly that, in my experience as a goalkeeper in the US, a lot of the training is quick movement. It’s very “rah-rah-rah, do this, now do that” and see how quickly you can get between the two. With the training here, he really emphasizes “be quick in the moment, but very casual between moments.” So in an exercise, we’ll be doing everything on a good pace. I’ll be moving, alert, keeping my vision up so I can see multiple things going on, and then timing myself for when I get set for a shot on one side. Then if there’s a shot on the other side or from another area, not rushing to that second spot and making sure I get there in the right time. Whereas in the US, it’s “Get there quick, get there set!” even if it’s early.
I see a lot of stuff online with Instagram goalkeeper coaches where, first of all, the equipment they're using is a slew of ridiculous. You know, hula-hoops are involved. I saw one guy on a hoverboard at one point, catching volleys. But a lot of it is really quick reps at different angles. One might be a soccer ball and the next, a tennis ball, then it’s a frisbee. I was talking with one coach and he said he wanted to do a session one time, to kind of counteract all that, where there were 90 minutes of just passing the ball around and then somewhere there’d be one shot. And I was like, “you know, that’s kind of ridiculous, but I kind of love it.”
*laughs* But that’s how the game is!
Yeah absolutely.
It’s why Alisson is such a good goalkeeper for Liverpool. I forget who they were playing a month ago, but 85th minute, he makes a fantastic save after not touching the ball with his hands for the entire game. It’s one of the hardest things to do.
Yeah, you can have all these reps in training and you’ll do a four save-sequence but how often are you doing that in your career? It’s so rare.
Being with Maccabi Haifa, do you feel like you’re comparing yourself to more goalkeepers now as you’ve reached a new level in your career?
No, no, I’m definitely, well... I don’t know if “comparing” is the right word but I’m definitely watching and more aware of the level comparisons between different leagues and different teams. I watch some of the Champions League games. I watch some of the Premier League games. I’m still trying to learn but what I’m looking at in the goalkeepers is different from what I was looking at before. I’m looking at the very fine details, not necessarily from the perspective of “Oh I should do that” but from the perspective of “That’s how this goalkeeper does that but this other goalkeeper does it slightly different. Which way might work better for me?”
What’s an example of something you’re looking for?
Yeah, so Neuer. The way he approaches 1v1 type situations is very different from Lloris. Neuer is a much more aggressive keeper and Lloris is the most patient keeper playing at the highest level right now, in terms of willingness to hold his ground and stay in a position far longer than you’d mentally feel comfortable with. It’s extremely impressive. And given my body type, my assets as a goalkeeper, I’m more in the Lloris camp. I need to hold my ground a little bit more, stay with the right body language, you know, shoulders forward, and trust myself that I can react and force the shooter into a decision rather than me making the decision by being so aggressive.
Are those minute differences something you were taught in the US? Or is that something you’re just now recognizing for yourself?
I’ve definitely had little things pointed out but in terms of going on my own of watching games as a scholar instead of a fan, that’s completely new. And it’s something I wish I had been doing a long time ago.
This is backtracking a little bit, but a lot of people compliment Sacramento on their fan culture and support. So I’m curious how a fairly rabid fanbase in the US compares to Maccabi Haifa.
The fanbase in Sacramento is fantastic. They love the team. They’re extremely supportive of the team. But the fan base here, at Maccabi Haifa, you can compare it with the top clubs in Europe, in terms of the culture and how the supporters act. I don’t think you can compare any fanbase in the US, whether Sacramento or even Atlanta, with the mentality that the fans have here. I’ll try to give an example. So in Sacramento, they love us players. They’re extremely friendly with us. Super supportive of the team but also the individual players. They’re really friendly and supportive whether win, loss, or draw. Here, we’ve won games and fans are whistling because they’re pissed off we didn’t play well. You have ten thousand people whistling and hissing after you won 1-0. But it’s because they realize we could have been much better and could have won that game four or five-zero had we actually played well.
That’s wild.
Yeah, it’s different. I have a teammate here who has literally been stopped on the street by a fan who was mad at him for wearing a yellow t-shirt on an off day. *laughs*
That’s a color of a rival club, right?
Yeah, yellow is two of our rivals. That’s what the fan culture is here. They absolutely love the club, love the team. They'd literally fight for the club and that is above all else.
I don’t know if “culture shock” is the right phrase but that sounds like a big change. Is that something that’s been intimidating at all?
It’s been a little intimidating. I’m still getting used to it. In terms of the environment in games and training, I’m used to that and it wasn’t too big of a difference because there’s always that barrier of “I’m on the field, they’re outside.” So you can kind of tune it out and focus on the game. There isn’t too big of a difference between 10,000 fans and 30,000 fans, from that perspective.
But the off-the-field is something I’m still not used to. Here, every player on the team is literally famous. We had a little mini-training camp down in Eilat, which is the southernmost city in Israel, right on the Red Sea. It’s about a six-hour drive from Haifa. And any time any of us left the hotel, people would be coming up asking for photos and trying to talk to us.
You’re at an interesting intersection with your career right now where you have so many possible paths going forward, with MLS, staying in Israel, or moving in Europe. Is there something you’re leaning towards with the next few years?
It’s something that I’ve learned that I always need to be thinking about it, as things can come up quickly. It’s the European way. For me, I’ve been fortunate that I could finish my college education and I have my degree and that I’ll be happy with my career after football. And so I’ve been able to see where I can go, above all else. I still have that mindset where the ultimate goal is to make it to the highest level and the highest league possible and for me, that’d ideally be somewhere in central Europe. The big four is very difficult but if the opportunity came up, I’d have to take it immediately and see what I could do.
